DZ-103: Game of the Scene 2 - Triangle of Sadness, The Favourite — Transcript

One of us is Sarah and the other one of us is Abigail and we're competing for the love of the DraftZero audience which of us is the favourite.

We all know it's me.

Would I poison you?

Definitely you would.

If you want more DraftZero more often, please consider joining our wonderful cohort of Patreons. However, this episode in particular is brought to you by ScriptUp. Our regular listeners know that they are story consultants with industry expertise, who don't promise any of that access to market bullshit. Instead, they just want to make your script better, via an excellent, thorough report and an awesome, incredibly valuable feedback call. For me personally, notes help me find script problems, but it's that back and forth discussion that helps me find solutions. We've used their service and they were really great and helpful. We've also heard from listeners who sing their praises not just from the written analysis but the value of that follow-up call to help diagnose and spitball ideas. But the best thing that we've been hearing lately is that script up a really excited when they get scripts from draft zero listeners they say that they're a kind of a cut above there's a quality to it look, personally I think jazz and I would love to think that we're helping you become better writers but I think we're just kind of a byproduct that people listen to us because they want to be better writers and I think that is actually really reflective why script up listen to us, in the first place you know they reached out to us because they are interested in the craft of screenwriting like you. If you would like 10% off script up story consultancy services use the promo code DZ10. Find links and promo code in the show notes.

Hi I'm Stu Willis.

And I'm Chas Fisher.

And welcome to Draft Zero A podcast. That's it, that's the statement. Welcome to Draft Zero, a podcast where two filmmakers try to work out what makes great screenplays work.

And in this episode we are delving back into games of the scene this is the second part so if you have just tuned in for this episode you might want to go back to the previous episode where we introduced the concept of games of the scene as espoused in the very, wonderfully contrasting examples of bluey and John wick chapter 4, And in this episode we are going to be diving into more dramatic fair so we are looking at triangle of sadness as selected by our patrons and the favourite which, correct me if I'm wrong to you but that's the film that kicked off this whole idea rolling around in your head.

I think we were talking about doing a one shot on the favourite because there's so much to talk about and games of the same or the game of the same it's interesting that we keep on sleeping between both was a lens that we felt that we could look at in the favourite.

Most definitely.

And what is interesting is that they are both satires and particularly a social satire but I do think satire is something that kind of brings this stuff to the surface where the example I was kind of reaching for that example about the you're uninvited and therefore I can kill you example was from Robocop as our top tier patron Crob wrote in to record it in to explain to us.

Hi Chas and Stu, loved the last episode on the game of the scene, glad you're doing a follow up and I've got three short scenes that I'd like to shout out as excellent examples and I love the way that the rules of the game change within these scenes. Robocop, you're fired dick. So Robocop literally has a secret fourth rule in his programming affecting his behaviour and by firing someone who works for OCP, Robocop can do his thing and take him out.

And you know RoboCop is a social satire right what is it about games that lend themselves to satires I is kind of an interesting question.

Why I mean ok if you're if you're looking to write a satire then you know going through these examples will definitely help I am still a fervent believer after. That one scene we analysed from John wick and I think some of the scenes that we're analysing from the two films today that there is value in this analysis that can be applied to really really straight dramas and just about like the purpose of it was to elevate the scene. Or scenes in particular but you know we'd already talked about you know rules of the world and tactics in previous episodes and crop has two other examples which I think speak quite clearly to both rules of the world and the tactics of the characters.

And then, of course, two, just for Stu, really brilliant sword-fighting scenes. The court jester, where Danny Kaye is switching between the two personas that he has available. One is the world's greatest swordsman and one is a complete novice. And so that's literally changing the capabilities of the character. I guess the rules of the engagement are the same, but yes, the tools he has to play with are vastly different moment to moment. And of course, the sword fight in The Princess Bride. Particularly, what I've always loved about that scene is it's a duel to the death, but Wesley changes the rules right at the end and, you know. Doesn't want it doesn't want to kill me so yeah I would rather destroy a stained glass window than an artist such as yourself or whatever the line is but so a couple of sword fights and then a very one-sided gunfight looking forward to the new at that guys thanks.

But what I actually got really from the analysis we did in the previous episode was first of all the distinction of wind condition versus winning like. I think I think there is dramatic value in knowing from an audience level what it is that a character is trying to achieve in a scene at the beginning of the same before the game is established or whatever the rules are and then separately I found. Where this analysis provided massive value to me was it was forcing me to think about other characters in the scene other than the protagonist it fleshes out. The other characters and what everyone else is doing if you think of them as all engaged in a game or their own game different games as we will discuss I think in both Triangle of Sadness and The Favourite.

I think the other part that I've been thinking of you know why is the game of the same or games in general a useful tool and I think it's because games are fun games are fun to be in and to watch, Right they're not fun if one person is absolutely destroying another person right a good game to watch kind of take something from video games a good game teaches you how to play it right and I think games that you can watch and kind of understand what is going on without not knowing the rules can make it appealing I mean just think about the women's world cup and how Australia I mean, Australia had this incredible kind of rise of national interest in our female soccer team. The Matildas did incredibly well. But it's because I think soccer like you can look at any go okay I understand what the field is and understand what's going on I mean fucking offside rules in soccer.

Yeah I was going to say except for the offside rule.

Esoteric but there's enough in there that you can kind of become invested in the drama right and it becomes because you're investing in the drama and then there's enough of a chat like I had to go to a penalty shootout because no one scored like it's soccer is designed to be so evenly matched that, that scoring is rare, right? But I think that's part of what makes it fun. And so I think what's interesting about comparing games and bringing them into drama is that it is fun for the audience to watch. And I think part of it is because games require us to kind of understand the rules a little bit. And so even something both Triangle of Sadness and The Favourite had to do with social rules. And you know I'm not from the period of The Favourite, you know, which is a period drama and I am not uber rich and go on a cruise, nor I am in the world of servicing people that are uber rich, right, like as much as I work in the film industry, like, that kind of level of like, it's completely divorced from my day to day, so the rules help me understand what's going on. So I think from an audience perspective a game helps you understand what the scene is about and who the people are in the same and I think coming back to your comment about it helping filling out the secondary characters because you actually see them as equal players they're all playing characters rather than non playing characters within the same it means that the audiences other ways to access the characters.

I mean yeah just by the fact that they are playing a game together means that there is a measure of parody power agency all those things.

Just one last thing this is from a paraphrasing of a study about self-determination and so it's this idea that we enjoy activities in the end the theory is this is connecting it to games is because they feel the need for confidence autonomy and relatedness, right so confidence is fulfilled through flow people like to feel competent right so the game should be interesting enough that you feel challenge but not enough to be kicked out, Right that you know there's an autonomy there's choices in games games are about a series of choices and relatedness is the way that they build interaction so you can see how that is actually really useful for characters because what you actually want to do is put your characters in a situation where they're competent enough to be challenged but you don't want them to be destroyed. You want your characters to be making choices right and games create choices not just for your protagonist they create choices for everyone involved in the game, And they create relatedness between his characters because it's about interaction whether that interaction is competitive combative or collaborative. Right they are interacting with each other and you know that's what we talked about before was the idea that makes everyone grounded in the same together that they're in the same thing so I think that's to me that's actually kind of a cool way of thinking about it. I don't think we're going to sit there and go is this scene about the competence of the character but I think in the favourite will see that Abigail's competence evolves and develops.

All right well should we dive into the delights that is triangle of sadness.

Success of a luxury cruise mainly depends on you I don't want to hear anybody saying no. It's always yes sir yes ma'am. I command you, enjoy the moment. No. No? No. What? You say no to me? No. No. So it's yes? Yes. No. Yes? Going in! Yes! Woo!

Alright do you want to summarise triangle of sadness or shall I.

Yeah I mean I'm happy to give it a whirl this is really a film of I was gonna say two halves so the first section is just introducing. Carl and Yaya who are both sort of models and social media influences and introducing their lives the second. Chunk is finding Colin Yaya on a yacht a cruise for the super wealthy but it also in that section introduces a whole lot of new characters like the the people of the boat and then the boat, both on the same night gets hit by an incredible storm and invaded by pirates and explodes and then the final sequence is about the, You stay with some of the survivors from the boat on stranded on a desert island.

Yeah and about how the social hierarchy kind of inverts a little bit right because effectively the super healthy everyone is at the back and call of the super wealthy on the yacht and when they get to the island what ends up happening is the also another Abigail. One of the cleaners ends up becoming the person who actually knows how to fucking get shit done so ultimately she becomes the alpha.

Yeah in terms of we've got some things that we want to talk about from this in particular but what are you talked about the subversion of class in the last sequence and yes that is very much what it's about but what I found really interesting because I knew a lot about the film going in, You know it would have won the palm door there was a lot of press about it and trailers so I knew Abigail was going to become the quote unquote alpha in the final sequence so I expected her as a character to be introduced. Fully and fleshed out and be kind of quite and quite oppressed or demeaned or taken advantage of in the second act and she barely appears at all in that. In that middle sequence where it's kind of reveling in the ludicrousness of the ultra wealthy. So the the scenes that we want to go into the first quote-unquote scene is actually really a sequence it's it's three scenes but it is the one game playing out across three scenes in three different locations.

It's most of the first act and it is really setting the stage for what the rest of the film is about.

And I've got a scene that that I want to talk about which dramatises that big shift in the the rules in the subversion which is in the third act with Abigail distributing octopi that she is caught but the scene that you want to start with is one of the few scenes in this film where there is actually kind of a literal game as well as a metaphorical game.

Yeah because I think you'll see if like bluey literal games we talked about example in John wick of games there be a film and I'll talk about in follow-up for Molly and Max has characters, playing which games so it can be a really good thing for your characters to play which game right so there is a scene between a Russian oligarch Dimitri and the captain of the boat whose name.

Thomas by Woody Harrelson.

Yeah and there's basically the first version of this game is them throwing quotes at each other about socialism versus capitalism right so it's kind of like a somewhat of a competitive game but is that kind of back and forth that I do think you see in, kind of theatre right so there's throwing quotes at each other to the point we even see Woody Harrelson's character the captain literally getting out his phones looking up quotes about capitalism right and it ends up with Dimitri observing like, A Russian capitalist and an American communist.

Hold on, I've got one here. Oh, oh, oh, oh, no, I have one. Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer, sir. That's Edward Abbey. Listen, the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. Margaret Thatcher. Ah, you're gonna like this one. The last capitalist we hang will be the one who sold us the rope. Karl Marx.

I mean the American communist being a captain of a yacht for the ultra wealthy.

And he's not the one who's calling himself a communist it's Dimitri going all the communist and really just get this impression that the captain is just sick of these, People because the previous scene has the captain basically being asked to clean the sails on the boat because they're dirty.

Yesterday I was up on deck and it was so beautiful everything was fantastic but then I saw the sails. The sails. The sails yes. Oh yeah. And they were dirt grey. Do you think it's possible to wash them? Well, I don't think that's possible, ma'am, because this is a motorized vessel. Yeah. So we don't have any sails. Maybe it was the, uh, the sun deck roof? What? Are you sure? I'm sure. Magnus! Magnus, would you like a glass of champagne? Of course there were white, bloody white seals on the boat we ordered in the catalogue. Yes. Yes, he says yes. It was sales. Magnus says yes. Yes. Jesus Christ. Well then, in that case, we will clean the sails.

And that is kind of a bit of a game right like there's a lot of that stuff of the ultra wealthy being polite and asking for things that are absurd you know oh I want the whole like the big disaster in the middle film is is created because the wife of Dimitri demands that the entire crew get to go for a swim. Right and so it's the whole crew working out how they're going to accommodate their demands so that's a lot of the game is that make a ridiculous demand. Right it's not cruel to man it's just kind of ridiculous and see how the crew accommodate that but in the second time we see the same with Dimitri and the captain is them playing a literal drinking game where the Dimitri is calling a card colour red black and then Woody Harrelson actually puts it down and determines whether or not the Russian is drinking what I noticed this time around watching that scene is, And you can hear it in the audio we are also is actually holding the deck of cards face up so that Dimitri could actually kind of look and choose not to drink but he's constantly getting it wrong and it's almost like is he just using this as an excuse to get drunk and then the third part of this is they end up in the captain's quarters with the microphone and they end up having a much larger argument so the game between them is it effectively it is it is that kind of you know that they're representing two different world views. And the first version is taking it seriously and then the second version is just turning into a drinking game so the third can go even more over the top it is not just combative right he's got a playfulness to it it it does create interaction between the characters there is a competence level to the characters I guess right.

Well I was going to say that it isn't competitive or combative I mean from the rules of the game like, If you put in the wind condition right neither of them actually thinks that they're going to convince the other. To join their side that they will find the right quote to to convince the other to cross the ideological boundary so it's almost more cooperative like they're just having fun with this like, there is a competitive element in that like I guess if one runs out of quotes but I guess that's what happened somewhere in between the two scenes where they've moved from quotes to cards right.

I mean it can be fun like do you think we should have a game of questions Chaz.

No.

Guess I win.

To me what is the point for you of this scene like the why have the writers included this in the movie.

It is fun it's two characters having fun with each other I think actually coming back to that original observation about the kind of creating the interactivity like the interrelatedness between them, It's kind of showing their competence to the audience what they know right so it's revealing worldview and it's forcing characters to connect but I also just think there is that sense of fun right like it's also revealing choices but I guess that's connected to the world for you thing. Like if this was them actually having a serious debate about capitalism vs socialism it would be kind of boring to watch. Right yeah yeah you know the characters like if you want the audience to have fun character should have fun is kind of you know one of my personal philosophies so I think it's a way of them raising the eye the themes, right because I think the film is kind of very much as we say it's a social saturday I think it's got that very European thing as much as it's kind of critical of like corporate capitalism in the second act in the ultra wealthy actually think it tries to, It is also kind of criticising anarchism and socialism in the in the third act I think it's one of those kinds of very like humans all fucked up kind of films and I think that's kind of what it's playing around with here.

I would say part of it is what the writers needed right and yes I think fun and entertainment is part of that but what they needed was to get there. Captain kind of so drunk that he was relinquishing his responsibilities.

He was really wish he's responsibilities the whole way through anyway.

Fisher but in particular during this massive storm when you've got these guests rolling around in their own vomit in spectacular fashion to me and this is how it made it thematic as well was it brought. Two characters together in such you know ideological opposition. Because to me the film is actually less about ideology in terms of like left right and more about entitlement and they brought someone who's, you know ideologically left and ideologically right together both in the sense of massive entitlement to where, people are suffering and potentially dying in life threatening situations like there was one part with it wasn't one of the diners in a wheelchair and they were trying to get them, you know safely back to their room and everyone's vomiting everywhere and people are pitching up and down and sliding all over the place and sewerage is exploding and leaking everywhere. Add in that point they both these people feel so entitled that they want everyone on the boat to hear their argument and I'm sure we've all I have been one of these two characters on many occasion drunk in the pub arguing with one person possibly stew.

We've done a hundred and three podcasts of this.

We are so entitled that we think everyone else needs to just stop what they're doing and listen to what we are talking about you know no matter what else is going on.

I mean what we talk about is pretty good.

But my point is like the game what it did was actually bring those characters together so I don't know if this is retroactive or not like him in how the the writers came to pull these together but one of the observations I came to from the last episode is that games can help writers. Get characters to go into positions. That is otherwise possibly against their character and so you've got this captain who's so kind of disillusioned with his life that he's alcoholic and disengaged right how do you get that character. To get to the point where he gets to in the film and you you set him up for a captain's dinner with a right wing Russian oligarch.

I've mentioned before I'm going to connect it to those things I definitely think the things of games are useful because they create interrelationship between characters and games require characters to make choices and choices reveal who they are right the tactics they choose as we talked about it's not just about what people want. It's about how they get it is kind of to me more revealing of character right I think the idea of games requiring people to be good enough that there's a bit of a challenge. You know you don't want someone to be demolished I I don't think that's a character like I mean obviously you want a degree of competency within a characters but it's why you structure things at the game you want the level of opposition to be. Kind of there plus one you know whatever it is I I I do think that's in what you're talking about because you're right I don't think these two would have otherwise had a conversation they had to make it on on some degree adversarial. But it's not a we're going to have a serious debate it's we are going to have fun with this and they are like you should watch a clip on it because like they kind of smile at each other's quotes like oh yeah that's a good that's that's a good line you know like they're enjoying each other throwing me a particularly the courts at each other. You know and then of course obviously the drunken argument is disastrous more ways than one right but that's actually also what it's about that they kind of so self absorbed.

Well it feels like other than a game and whether you make it in this case it was a literal game but other than using some kind of game there is no way they would have gotten those characters. To escalate together you have had to put them in an arena set them win conditions and given them strategies to get where they ended up going.

Do you think there is a win condition in their interrelationship here.

Get as drunk as humanly possible.

Yeah but it's interesting I think that we've talked a lot about win conditions but people can play things for the fun of it right there it doesn't have to be a win condition. And I think this is a good example of something in which they're the game is the thing that kind of enjoying it reminds me a little bit of in the White Lotus season 2, is that the rich couple whose names escape me but effectively a lot of their relationship is that they kind of cheat on each other and the, their jealousy drives their kind of sexual desire for each other on some level like it's a very toxic, Feedback, loop. But it is certainly part of how they work and I don't think that has a win condition in the game right like there's a series of rounds I'm gonna make you jealous and then you make me jealous and then we kind of you know fuck.

But then but you just be just stated the wind condition making the other person jealous.

But the game doesn't end so okay I mean that's the interesting thing the wind condition doesn't mean the game is over.

Well as we've already identified in this clearly at some point the game ended right the game of quotes ended we didn't see one character when or not right but they ended up just going with cards right because they needed to keep playing something.

To be fair when we do drinking games often just it will turn. Let's just roll it, flip a coin, if it comes up coin shaped. Alright we talked a lot surprisingly about that scene and that's one of the shortest ones so let's jump on to the beginning of the film, Which is the well it's not quite the beginning it's the interaction between Colin yeah yeah so the film opens with Carl at a. Casting call with other male models and to me the impression is he doesn't get picked because we see him getting close but he doesn't make it we go to a fashion show with someone that's it's kind of really well known and he kind of gets sent to the back it's the pecking order of. Fashion shows and then it we kind of see Kyle in on a date having dinner with Yaya the model that we recognise from the previous same right and then basically what happens is that she. Expect him to pay for dinner right.

I mean to be to be very clear they had pre agreed it comes out later in the same day pre agreed she was taking him out for dinner the bill arrives and she picks up a phone and starts checking it. Yes she doesn't reach for it and in the awkward pause he ends up reaching for it and then this sets up from there a game where the wind condition for him is to get her to admit. That she deliberately ignored the bill.

Yes.

And the game for her kind of she already won the initial game she got him to pay the bill but the win condition for her is to not admit it to make him feel bad about himself for making a big deal out of who paid the bill.

And so they have a very interesting conversation about the role of money in power dynamics because you know she earns more than him and he's basically like I want us to be equal for her it's not about money, So there's all this kind of stuff that can't lay is the relationship between Mount money and power dynamics right that's definitely laced through the yacht and then the island did part 2 and part 3 of this film.

Come on I can tell you something wrong just talk to me what is it. You know, it's just, when you say, when you say thank you, honey, like that, I mean, you don't really give me an option but to pay. It was just an observation, because it's something I've noticed. Oh, we could split the bill if you like. No, no, no. I can whip out a calculator and we can... No, no, okay. You need to... How many glasses of wine did you have? Oh, sure, sure. Shut up. Okay, that's not what I mean. That's not what I mean. Make it all evens out, you know?

Right so what is interesting to me my questions for you is what is the arena of this game what are the rules because I think the rules are emerging in this, right I think this is good example of a situation where the rules are kind of emerging in their discussion right as opposed to the example of like we just going to throw quotes at each other they very early on, The rules are established like up to I mean that's it you don't talk about it before the rule three is great because you need three is often structure for jokes because number one sets it up to establish is the pattern and three subverts the pattern right. So I think here you know and who is the referee right is there a referee and what and I'm beginning to change what my thinking of the referee is.

So we've already said the wind conditions you said what's the arena I think the arena is definitely. Their privacy because the scene starts in a in the actual restaurant like car kicks off the discussion while they're still sitting at the table and it prompts ya ya to like. Basically feel uncomfortable enough to get up and leave then there in a taxi where there's one other. Person and then it gets further and further alone right they then get to like the elevator of the building.

And it's this hilarious thing where he keeps on hitting the elevator door to keep it open to keep the argument going because he won't let it go he won't let it go there is a moment with him in the taxi driver with a taxi driver basically give me advice which is you need to win this.

Excuse me you have to fight if you don't fight you're going to be her slave.

It's like almost like a moment of coaching to use like game right or table talk it's like you need to go and win this argument because she'll forever walk over you. Yeah right I mean this feels like fucking you know men's right activist bullshit you know that classic kind of stuff.

Well but that's how he how he comes across though the fascinating thing about this sequence for me is that it made Carl while it was going on to be super unlikable right like he was being very aggressive. And she to my mind was actually winning she was achieving her win condition like he was losing so long as there was an audience around he was losing. That's true and what I found super revealing because they end up separate is that she comes back and knocks on his door and comes to his hotel room and doesn't meet that she deliberately was playing some kind of game to make him pay the bill. And to me that was fascinating because suddenly it it made me respect Carl a bit more right like I was definitely on team yeah yeah and then I'm like oh my God how manipulative is that right and, Respect how perhaps not the right word it made it made them both as bad as each other and and in a way well suited to each other.

Yeah because he recognised that she was manipulating him and she resented that he recognised right because effectively what I would say in terms of the argument they kind of win she wins again because she says I just you know what happens if I fall pregnant right I mean I need to know I'm with a man that can take care of it so she's basically saying my money. Is my own right and I need you to take care of me if you want to date a model if you don't date someone as hot as me you need to earn that place right and so it's kind of comes across as kind of more transactional relationship right.

Yeah but they come to a level of honesty that I think is really healthy.

Yeah for sure.

For them both right at the end of it right like you actually got off you know these guys have two highly dysfunctional people but they are they are doing well together.

So I think what's interesting is on the one hand the arena does change right so you go from the more public part of the restaurant like it's that intimacy spectrum kind of stuff that we've talked about before so you go when they're in the pub public arena to in a Uber to in a, Elevator the still public but no one's around into their room right and that kind of changes how they interact that's interesting but on the other hand I think the one of the rules of this game is the argument is only between them.

Will does the cab driver how does Carl react to being coached by the Uber driver.

Well he goes after Yaya, she gets out doesn't she and then the cab driver talks to him and he fucking follows. I think it's interesting because the arenas change and there is private public aspects to that in that how the tank changes the personal game they've clearly, God they pick up once in their scenes and they've got tactics for how they're trying to go for it but I think you know what makes the game of the same or the game of the sequence a useful metaphor is both of these characters understand what situation they're in. Right she is trying to manipulate him and he is trying to call her out on being manipulated. And the way he goes about it makes him kind of reveals a sense of who his character is and that's going to be further revealed in part 2 and particularly in part 3 and likewise with her.

Right well is that a neat Segway for us to go to part 3.

Yeah I think we should go to part 3.

This episode of Draw Zero is brought to you by Arc Studio Pro a modern fresh app for the screenwriting world. Which of course has industry standard formatting which, That's the bare minimum, but exciting for us Australians, it has it for both US letter and A4. Crazy. And it also lets you cheat the margins, which is one of my favourite little features. But it has advanced tools for storytellers that are actually easy to use. You can seamlessly move between drag and drop beat cards into a treatment and into a screenplay and back and forth at any time. And you can color code your beats super useful whether you want to tag your beats for characters, narrative point of view, thematic sections, or however you want. We got to use all of that on a project where we took it back to cards and then from cards to outline and from outline to pages. The development process was intuitive and powerful. All the while, it was the best remote collaboration experience we've had in screenwriting software and we've tried a lot. I loved looking at a line of dialogue that Chaz had edited, going to the edit history and changing it back to the line that I wrote. We use the software to present to our producer and script editor at each of those stages, at boards, at outline and then at pages, who could then leave comments in the app, which is both useful and terrifying. And we could reply to those comments, tag each other to throw each other under the bus, or we could take them as resolved. It really is as easy to use as Google Docs. And this development workflow has worked so well that Chas has decided he doesn't need me anymore, and he's using it on a solo project. Because it's not just from collaboration, and I know I'll be using it on one of my own projects, because the development workflow really is that intuitive. We've noticed ArcStudio Pro is being constantly updated and the development team is super approachable and responsive. They've now introduced the new notes feature which facilitates that collecting of all your scraps of ideas and allowing you to get into the flow of free writing and figuring all your structure all within one spot, ArcStudio Pro. Join the thousands of screenwriters from amateurs to pros and everyone in between who've already made the leap. ArcStudio offers a completely free plan because starting to screenwrite shouldn't cost you anything. But you can also get $30 off the Pro plan if you want some of these Pro features. If you visit the link in the show notes or go to arkstudiopro.com. That's draft0 without a hyphen. And now for the third hour of a screenwriting podcast. Except this episode is like 90 minutes. All the better for it.

There's a few of the characters washed up on the beach and not all the characters are there so it's made for a new interesting group dynamic. They've survived one night by abandoning someone with a disability in the jungle with the loud noises but that's you know displaying what we boys known about these characters is that they're out there for themselves but. It introduces a new character and there's to me that's really important there's three kind of I guess groups of characters. There's Abigail who was you know downstairs she was the cleaner on the yacht I think and this scene is she has gone and successfully caught some food there are out of food I mean her introduction she comes on a lifeboat and lands on the lifeboat and there is food on the lifeboat right not much some crackers and water.

She's the only one in this gigantic lifeboat.

So she's arrived on the lifeboat and immediately there's the the like I guess I think of her as the concierge or the the liaison between the guests and the crew of the yacht. Right and immediately she is like taking ordering Abigail around taking all the food away from her and distributing it. Right to the others like giving them water giving them chips but that that resources quickly used up so Abigail successfully patches an octopus and she's like it is shot so well all the guests are up on the beach. With the concierge and Abigail is in like it is a wide wide distance shot you are not with Abigail and they're all like a yes well done you know, Little person bringing us food carry on right the way that it's staged is is excellent but then it cuts to it's night time the octopus is cooked and Abigail is chopping up the octopus and is like saying one for you one for me one for you one for me.

One for you, for me, for you, for me, for you, for me. What? What's that? That's mine. No, no, no, no, the big pile there, what's that? Mine. It's mine. All of this? Yes. No, no, no, no. Why do you get so much food? Why? I caught the fish. Yes? I made the fire. And? I cooked. I did all the work. And everybody got something. Hmm. No. No, we all, we all worked. What did you do? We gathered all the wood for the fire. I moved the log. Yeah, this big log, it was over there and we moved it over here. do now. No maybe not enough but we need to work together they don't know how to do that. Exactly and maybe that's why you should not be so lazy and dependent on me.

Then the Meta D tries to establish the power dynamic as it was on the boat and I think functioning under the understanding that you know they're going to be rescued soon and they need to adhere to those power dynamics and. She's trying to reestablish those rules that Abigail is not playing by and not only is she like schooling the Meta D on, What the new power dynamic is she then uses the octopus to reinforce it she demands of each individual guess who's like, who's in charge you are right you get another piece of octopus like she's like throwing them treats like their dogs because that's where they are in the pecking order of usefulness in this new survival situation.

I think you're forgetting that you and I are employees of a big shipping company remember. In the end, I'm responsible for the safety of the guests. You'll have to do what I say. We work on a yacht. You are a toilet manager. You don't know how to handle this. Where's the yacht? You know this, Abigail. I am a very rich man. When we get back, I can do good things for you. I can make your life easy and nice. When we get back? Yeah. When we get back, people looking for us. What, you think we will stay here forever? What? We're funny. This is not how you were trained, Abigail. Please skip. Come on, this is ridiculous. You're scaring people. Put the stick down. Who am I? Who are you? Who am I? You're the toilet manager. No. No, I'm the toilet manager here. Captain, who am I? You're the captain. Yes. Who am I? Captain. Very good. PewDiePie? Captain. Who am I? Captain. Who am I? Captain. Who am I? Who am I?

Who am I? Yeah it's fantastic so it's an interesting example because I what I'm beginning to think I mean look it's just it's just fucking terminology right but what we've been talking about the referee is I think ultimately the referee is the person who interprets the rules which means if you interpret the rules.

You set the rules.

Right I think that is a bit different from the situation in John Wick 4 whether these characters that understand like have rate like there is difference between being a lawyer and a judge.

Yeah.

Right so I think there are characters that their job is to understand the law and the rules and the way it works and I think the match a day the kind of head of staff she is someone who understands the pecking order of the old world. Right but somebody has to come in and kind of tip change the power dynamics and Abigail by almost just doing it, is kind of reestablishing that, like she's a rule maker. Happy with it and I think what is interesting is it's just showing the how much of his conversation at the beginning about I want us to be equal was ultimately he wanted to be with someone who could take care of him. Right he kind of was inverting his he kind of his entitlement was I'm a good looking young man I should be in the case with him and yaya he wanted to be more equal in the case of him and Abigail he's willing to trade his youth and good looks to her.

Yeah but I mean car was in that initial saying the way that he was like saying. You know he was basically using feminism and equality as a weapon like you're not being feminist unless you buy me dinner is essentially what his argument was.

The film kind of ends it look it's interesting because what they realise is that they're not that far from a result right so they're about to go back into a different arena and then yeah yeah basically is like you know I could get you. Work as my assistant to Abigail and then I think the moment of hesitation is Abigail is realising that her Empire is going to shift again like the power that she has in this arena is going to change when they go to a different arena and this does echo and this is spoilers for yellow jackets but one of the characters in, in yellow jackets effectively sabotage is the rescue effort because she enjoys the power that she has in this new survival situation so it's very similar to that I mean there is a sense of play through all that stuff in part 3 because it's about Abigail establishing a new order, her being the rulemaker her setting the rules and we kind of enjoy watching the ultra rich kind of end up being dependent on her. Definitely but I mean you even get like one of the characters killing a wild donkey as they can learn how to survive and you know the satire is of your look that the ultra with actually have nothing to, I'll value to bring society but.

I mean this is not a subtle film like a lot of people really enjoyed this but I found it. Too obvious not that that makes me smart I think it is deliberately trying to be obvious you know.

Yeah.

In a film where you've got a left wing and a right wing person yelling ideological screeds at each other over a PA while the ultra-rich are literally rolling around in their own vomit subtlety is not what it's going for.

Doesn't make me think jazz what to either of us bring in survival situation.

Oh I'm like I'm I'm attaching myself to my nurse and midwife wife.

You can cook pretty well which is silly more than me.

Do you have any other comments from how this analysis when applied to triangle of sadness makes these scenes work better I mean to me there was no better way to dramatise the big shift. In the rules of the world then this game of distributing the octopus.

Yeah I think it's connected to resources which is we kind of talked about as being an abstract thing in the games but I do think what resources that characters have at their disposal to get what they want is in this moment here, Right any kind of see that in the favourite as well right the resources at the characters can muster to get what they want in playing the game is a useful thing can be a useful thing to think about. Obviously Abigail quite literally in this is the one who's able to both catch the food and cooking.

I thought you were segwaying into because there's another character called Abigail in the favourite Abigail is the only one who actually uses resources in the game that she's playing.

I think they use different kinds of resources, and that's what's interesting, right? So, I kind of think- so, there's- to bring in a board game concept more than a sports concept, like in board games, you know, you talk about asymmetrical games. So, there's games like chess, which are very symmetrical. Basically, we have all the same pieces, we have all the same moves. Basically, the win condition is the both of us, right? And then there are other games on the other side, which are called like asymmetrical where players have different kinds of resources so kind of there's like one which is called Star Wars Rebellion which is based on one of the Lord of the Rings things which is basically, oh you have really powerful but slow moving ships which represent the Empire versus the Rebellion which is a whole bunch of small ships that move really fast, and balancing that stuff in a board game is really difficult we also played the game Root, We played two games right where it's kind of like the wing conditions and what each player can do is vastly different which actually makes it really hard to understand what the other player is doing. You know what it was interesting about playing the game in this day is related to drama if we're playing the same game but we've got access to different resources and we're playing different have different wing conditions. Right then it's actually much harder for me to understand what your path to victory is.

Well I was going to say to try and tie this out of the abstract back into and Segway back into our next film I think that's what Sarah because she's playing a different game to Abigail that's why she quote unquote losers. Yes. Because she doesn't identify what Abigail is trying to do.

Well I mean I think what's interesting is she actually calls Abigail out. On her needing to be a survivor, but she- she doesn't- yeah, they're not playing the same game. But I think that is an interesting thing before we completely segue like to cap off Triangle of Sadness. I think the island is kind of a little bit somewhat asymmetrical in a way that Abigail ultimately has to emerge victorious. She is both the- she's the rulemaker, she is the referee. It is very similar to The Favourite, right? Everyone wants to be on Abigail's good side. She's the one with all the power. Whereas in The Yacht, the captain and the oligarch are a little bit more equal. It's a little bit more of a symmetrical game. They're literally throwing quotes. It's not that one of them is throwing a quote and the other one is putting down a card, and Carla Niagara is a little bit more balanced. So, the asymmetrical power dynamics are a more complex way to think about games. And there is a reason that most sports we watch are not asymmetrical. They're literally symmetrical. They're two sides trying to kick a fucking Ball in a goal or you know the tactics and the specifics of how people achieve it may be asymmetrical but the game itself is not like we're playing too vastly different games. Where is the favourite is in many ways that.

Everyone leaves me, and he dies. Ah! I apologize for my appearance. I hoped I might be employed here by you. As something. A monster for the children to play with, perhaps. Grr! It is important to make new friends in court, is it not? You're so beautiful. Stop it, you mock me. If I were a man, I would ravish you. You have become close to Abigail. She is a viper. You're jealous. I must take control of my circumstance I'm on my side always.

So brief summary of the favourite for those of you who have not seen it is it is a relationship triangle period film set in the time and rain of Queen Anne but it is about two women duelling for Queen Anne's affection. But it is really a more than almost any other film I've ever seen I would say it is a genuine not two handed three hander where Queen Anne, Sarah Churchill lady Marlborough and Abigail Hill who is Abigail starts out she was aristocracy, and has fallen from grace to the point which he elaborates at some point during the film where her father sold her sexually to a friend to pay his gambling debts and she is now, Sort employment as a maid so Abigail has fallen quite far and importantly starts right at the bottom of the pecking order of the social strata of this palace where the Queen is nominally at the top but it's not just even though the film centres on these three characters. Every other person in the film is also trying to manipulate the Queen in some way or another because there's a background of you know there's a battle with there's a war with France on and with the different political parties wanting different things there's you know Prime Minister and the head of the landowners party, they're all trying to manipulate the Queen and the Queen is just sitting in her own post-traumatic stress from having had I think it's seventeen pregnancies some of which led to childbirth. But all of which led to child death.

Yeah which is it's played as a reveal and it's a it's a heartbreaking reveal because one of the very clever things about the film and this is a broad comment. Is how it shifts our allegiances between the characters that we're like all these persons horrible actually I now can't understand when I'm coming from on other hard to, get back like it kind of toys it's having a bit of a game with the audience of how you feel about these. People right Abigail is one of the big ones that we begin you know we we kind of see her as a sympathetic character you know I mean she's literally sitting in a in a carriage and a guy starts masturbating to her, Opposite him right like that kind of like sexually assaulted and she's pushed out and humiliated the staff love humiliating her they kind of get her to go and clean something and it turns out it's a liar and it burns a hand you know so she's constantly humiliated and assaulted emotionally and physically right so we kind of feel for her early on.

Can you start out definitely with Abigail now while we've got scenes that we want to talk about I think we would this film has scenes with both literal games as well as the subtextual game behind them and then there are other scenes we want to talk about where there's metaphorical games but this whole film you know this is one of those ones it's so perfect for this analysis because the whole film is a game you know there's a there's a game of. Not just of the scene but of the film which is which of these two women which of Abigail and Sarah will win Queen Anne's affection.

It's in the title it's the favourite yes you will be the favourite and part of the asymmetry is in some ways their intentions are different. Right Abigail is as Lady Sarah Churchill says is Abigail has been so humiliated that she will do anything for safety where is Sarah Churchill I think what's interesting about her is we're not sure whether she really believes what she is but have on this rewatch I'm like, I actually think she's one of those characters is saying the truth you doubt that she's telling the truth but she is actually telling the truth which is I think Churchill both loves the Queen but he's also doing what she's doing because she's doing what she thinks is in the best interest of the country. Right I think that is actually is it her true motivation and I think part of what makes this work is that the characters motivations are very up front. Abigail is a social climber she just wants to go back to the way things were. And Sarah Churchill I mean I guess you can look at the more negative she wants power right at Lady Churchill wants power in a world where women don't have power unless they're Queen.

Yeah I mean the film starts out where Sarah Churchill has power she has the ear of the Queen what she says goes she has the leaders of both political parties coming to her her husband is the leader of the British Army over in France.

There's one quote that I really loved and I do think I'm going to break this down visually on Shot Zero so if you're not subscribed to Shot Zero you should go to Shot-Zero.com and choose to follow us on Instagram or Twitter or on Substack which is the email newsletter. Which is this is a quote from the cinematographer quoting a critic about his work but he's agreeing with the critic. He says that the film starts as a playground that turns into a battleground and then turns into a prison. Right and I think that is really interesting because they that is about the changing of the arena the arena is more a playground then it becomes more of a battleground and then it becomes a prison I think it's actually really insightful.

Yeah I think it it probably was all those three things for all the characters all the time but how it's shot and how it impacts on them and how it plays against the narrative changes with each act.

Or our understanding of the characters in their situations is, yeah, because Abigail is just as trapped at the end of the film as she is at the beginning of the film.

The ending is not relevant to me from these scenes perspective nor even from the game right but this is a film that ends with Sarah Churchill in exile, Queen Anne being cared for she's chosen Abigail to be the favourite Abigail has won, Abigail is a sociopath right Abigail is not a good person to be a friend or a care in the same way that Sarah Churchill was right so the Queen Anne has chosen poorly in someone to be a companion for her like the penultimate scene is Emma Stone stepping on a baby rabbit to make it squeal and enjoying it and the baby rabbits are the Queen's children right the Queen hearing this. The film very deliberately is that scene at the end with her stepping on the rabbit to punish the rabbit to gain pleasure for herself that is deliberately trying to tell you who Abigail is as the for me the filmmakers are making that. That choice.

Was she always that was she someone that her life in this world transfer into that like that's part of the fun of debating this film right but I absolutely I agree that's where it ends up right that it's kind of like a false victory, for her because the scene not long before series exiled is basically you have won a game you don't realise what game you've been playing will play the actual quite.

Leave that I like it the mirror stay to. Oh my god, you actually think you have won?

You're trying to see what you could get from the Queen for you but you don't realise that the Queen ultimately will have power you know there is responsibilities that come with this position and Abigail ultimately is kind of confronted with the Queen going well if you're going to be here you're going to rub my leg.

There's that and also I like you said Sarah was playing a game not just for the Queen's affection she was playing it for the country as well. And these are this is as much as we're getting like potentially sidetracked I think this is important context for the scenes that were going to be talking about because they go to wards. The rules of the world that these characters are abiding by and what their win objective is in any given.

Early on Abigail is as we talked about kind of effectively bullied by the other mains that kind of tell her to do these things so part of it is Abigail learning the rules of the maids right and and I think part of that is why she so like I need to get out I understand how to play the game of being a lady. Right I understand that world and she's very good at manipulating herself into that position but I think that seems we want to talk about there's three shooting scenes I do think it's worth talking about a little bit of her romantic. Roll in the bushes and then the mud saying and how that then connects to the to the poison. Right so all of this as we said like the whole film is in a way dictated by the game right that there is a rulemaker which is the Queen and what makes her fascinating character is that she can seemingly change her desires on a whim. Right that she can kind of be moody and be infantile. And so you try to do that while living within the kind of complex social structures of the court and you just get little shit like Nicholas Holtz character. Robert Harley he kind of treats Abigail like shit so once you realise who Abigail is they're walking along and he's talking about how people will just betray you and then he's like oh look over there and she looks and he pushes her in a ditch, and there are other times where he basically should be walking along and he'll shove her and then start talking to her so every time you see them interact it almost starts with him being a dick.

I mean I don't think you've watched the great but the great the writers of this the favourite one of the writers is the the show runner of the great which also stars Nicholas Holt and it's very similar sense of social satire set in aristocracy.

In fact it was the pilot script for the great that got Tony McNamara the co-writing job on this.

Ah, there you go.

So basically Abigail one of the I don't even know what he is one of the gentry he seems to be involved in the horses is kind of Samuel Masham basically Abigail grabs his eye and he's keen on her right and she's kind of aware of that and there is a scene where. She belittles him because he comes in wearing all the fucking wiki shit and she kind of basically says not that. And he's been instructed to go after her he he's basically working for the Robert Harley character they try to use her for pump her for information and then he kind of goes after her and he's kind of playing a power thing which is, they can run into each other in a field and it's this really interesting dynamic I think you're kind of talking about it where it looks like he's got the power right and turns into a game of chasing but what we realise is that she's able to manipulate, this game to put herself on top.

It's such a little saying right it's it's a seduction scene is this like you say it's the second scene where these two characters are interacting and he surprises her she's just reading in a Glen. Ride or a Glade I'm not sure what the difference between a Glen and a Glade is but and it's full of autumn leaves and foliage and he comes and surprises her and they start playing. A literal game of tag right there where he's running around so this is one of those scenes where there's a literal game and then there's the metaphorical subtextual game. And he is her social superior he is landed gentry and she is still at this point a servant and he is also physically stronger than her in the physical game of tag or chasey which also descends into. Wrestling right like it's your very sexually loaded seen as well but this game the scene is so. Absurd like this is a film that does teeter deliberately into the absurd a points like there's a dance sequence in there like, almost in lines of the American hustle. Where Jennifer Lawrence is singing live and live and let die like straight to camera like there is there is levels of abstraction in this film but in this particular scene it feels out of place but what it is is a game perfectly dramatizing, that even though mashem is socially superior and physically superior that Abigail wins in both ways.

I've just now decided to marry you, Matthew. I cannot marry a servant. I can enjoy one, though. I know it would ruin you to marry me. I will fix things for us. I think we're a good match. I think you're very good.

Yeah she often like the moments where he lies on top of her and we like oh he's holding her down and then she kind of pushes him off she gives him a moment she gives him a kiss and then pushes away she seems to know how to manipulate the kind of social more I saw the time I guess.

She never feels out of control of the situation even where he's like I could just take you right now because you're a servant like he says it out loud right and where she's like I've decided I'm going to marry you you are now officially a step on my path to social security and winning the game of this movie and the game is what makes her seem powerful. That she feels confident enough to assault him to play this game to play in it I mean this film is like a network of interactions between Abigail and other characters and it is wonderful in how they all escalate like mashem. They've had a previous scene they've had this scene they have their wedding night where he's like, Sitting in her her single bed and she's just like frustrated that he wants to have sex so she goes and jerks him off like it's so demeaning to him even though he's the Lord. I'm getting slightly sidetracked but yes that is one scene where there is a literal game and it is being used brilliantly to bring out the subtext between these characters and also give agency and power to Abigail.

Demonstrating her confidence is demonstrating giving her choices and it's forcing her to interact alright so the next three scenes that we want to talk about are also the truth slash figurative games which is that Sarah. Takes Abigail shooting so what's interesting is that Sarah realises that Abigail is an asset. Abigail kind of creates a situation where the Queen develops gout Abigail goes and pick some herbs sneaks in through lying to the Queen and soothe her gout and she's caught in the act and Churchill's like you shouldn't do this you've crossed the line. When the Queen says this actually soothed me Churchill is like okay you gonna become lady of the bedchamber or whatever it is because she realises that she actually is of some value. And it feels like Sarah has got this interesting relationship with Abigail that she's sees Abigail is someone that's useful but she kind of wants her to be in effectively her made. But you kind of want to train up and know her place and she kind of even says I know a place so she takes Abigail shooting and there's three scenes of them shooting. I think one of the things that's interesting is that Abigail is very bad at it at the beginning and that makes Churchill feel that she's got power the second time we see the same Abigail is better. Abigail says that's because Churchill is a good teacher but what you kind of realise through the performance and be interesting so what it says in the script is that. Abigail was probably holding back the first time around that she was deliberately losing in order to make Churchill feel better right and that is Abigail's going more confident about her position in court she can show what she's capable of with impunity right she needed Churchill to believe that she was below her and Churchill calls her out on this.

You perfectly outline the first scene and the second scene Abigail is doing a bit better so there like on level pegging as it were. But what happened just before that Abigail at this point in the film is just discovered the Sarah and the Queen are lovers the night before. Yeah. And what Abigail says is in her mind she's going how can I gain Sarah's confidence so that I can rise up through the ranks and what she does is she confesses to Sarah that she knows she's the Queen's lover she says I will keep your greatest secret.

So just to make that sequencing clear Abigail sees Sarah and and have sex and then is on that escape as she's sneaking out she's intercepted by Harley, who kind of begins to talk to her and is there is there anything you want to tell me blah blah blah and she does keep the confidence of what she is saying and so as from an audience perspective like man, Yeah baby Abigail's alright right like she seems to understand and then missing she's playing that politeness she's trying to leverage what she knows. Yes but this is this is the great exchange you are pretty when I write to my secrets are safe with you Abigail all of them Sarah good then Abigail offers up, good is a statement and it's it's one word the conversation should be over at that point that's what Sarah saying good. The rhythm of it is this is over and then Abigail offers up even your biggest secret Sarah looks up at Abigail who smiles knowingly. She closes her gun Abigail Sarah rises a gun shoots Abigail falls Sarah starts laughing.

Right all that to me was like Sarah is basically saying and all this is dramatised through the shooting right. Sarah is saying no matter what you know no matter what power you think you have no matter what you're asking for I can kill you as a whim. She is reinforcing the power dynamic at the end of that same and then by the third shooting same Sarah has been spending a lot of time in politics and Abigail has been spending a lot of time with the Queen and has won the Queen's affection and this is reflected that when they start shooting Abigail is actually beating. Sarah in the shooting this is another I guess as a black comedy or is a satire it's also not very subtle in this particular moment.

Basically Sarah's been dealing with the war effort Abigail is basically being able to cut her grass right and then Sarah says I am. It's all that kind of passive aggression I hope you do not find your time with the Queen to tedious. Oh not at all Sarah says you know I know you are should be angry if I do not appear soon take your shot and Abigail shoots the bird in such a way like basically turns to the bird before it's too far away and shoot in such a way that the blood sprays all over Sarah.

And then the button on that is that the Queen's page comes running over and Sarah, is like ah the. Queen's page you tell me you know I'll be there directly in the page looks at her and he goes no no no no. Right yes the Queen is both. An arbiter of the rules she's also the prize and she's also an arena these women must behave in a different way when the Queen is present then when the Queen is not. So when these shooting scenes provide an excellent opportunity to make the scenes between Abigail and Sarah when they are away from the Queen to talk subtextually about their, needs desires all that kind of stuff where they what they're trying to do what their win conditions are and over the top of all that is this very obvious metaphor of a game but it makes those scenes, You, Entertaining.

Yeah it does I mean it makes these fun it shows you the three scenes coming back to the interaction kind of competence and choices right like we are beginning to see Abigail's I take that back looking in the script is nothing in the script that suggests that Abigail knew how to shoot right, she is getting better and she says I am getting better because of you right to to Sarah so let's take this on face value, That Abigail these game chains are showing that that Abigail is getting more competent right at the game that Sarah who's teaching her to play.

Yeah right.

It is showing her making decisions in the decision ultimately that the most important one she makes in the context of those three beats is the one where she chooses to shoot the bird and splatter Sarah with blood so she is inverting the power relationship where, In previous scene Sarah threatened her with gun and now she's killed a bird in front of her and got blood over her so she's becoming emboldened in her choices but the nature of the game is forcing these two characters to interact in a particular way, this is like both a game but it's also there's a bit of like subtextual table talk here you know that the characters are discussing what is going on in their relationship it's coded, but as you say they talk very differently here than they do with the Queen.

Yeah and I think this is the moment in the film where Sarah realises that Abigail is a threat. Yes. And an Abigail has declared that by with the blood splatter she has taken her shot.

What's great instead of Abigail got a series goes to seize the Queen and she says you sent Abigail to try and make me jealous I think I'm in and like maybe perhaps right and I think because I do think what is so interesting about this and this is kind of comes to Sarah's comment is that I do think Abigail is kind of being used by the Queen.

Oh absolutely.

Yeah for most of it.

So we're going to extract one line before we get to a mud bathtub scene but the the sequence events as it happens from here on in is Abigail takes her shot right she literally seduces the Queen. Right and Sarah comes into the Queen's bedroom at night to find Abigail and it's a wonderful shot where Emma Stone is like just. Eyeballing while topless with the sleeping Queen and I'm wrapped around it just saying like fuck you I'm I'm in here right and. Sarah reacts as she should write your fired you are you'll be gone from the palace you are done right and so what Abigail does is, assault herself beats herself up with a book and places herself outside the Queen's quarters crying so the Queen finds her so that the Queen. Chooses to hire Abigail as a maid independently of Sarah and I just want to extract the line which is going to exactly what you just said which is this is you know and is benefiting from this and using Abigail as well which as they're walking out is.

Your tongue seems uncharacteristically still. I heard you. She's my servant, she's not dismissed. I've made her my maid of the bedchamber. Did you not hear what I said? Yes. You regard her as a liar and a thief. Yes. I do not, obviously. You will dismiss her. I don't want to. I like it when she puts her tongue inside me.

But all of this gets to the point where we built through all these scenes and what we've what the film builds towards is suddenly Sarah realises she is playing the game of the titular game of the film who can be the Queen's favourite. Right she understands that and she then starts employing a different strategy which goes to your mud bath same.

So this is the same happens not long after right so seemingly Abigail has won a victory so. The scene opens on and in a bath of mud right and then Abigail is sitting next to her talking to her you know and then and make so what if I go to sleep and sleep under. Abigail says you just imagine is hot chocolate right so there's a little bit of kind of flirting there but I don't actually think that was the answer that that and, was looking for I think she was looking for the you would you would save me right and then as a inversion of the power Sarah enters in just a robe right she takes off the road and then hops in the bath.

Right but that's not the game I mean that it's definitely a tactic but that's not the tactic that she is about to deploy in this scene to win and back.

Yeah it's pretty simple basically she draws a moustache on her face and she makes an laugh.

Abigail panics at that.

And then she asks Abigail it's kind of like a test of can you get us some refreshment and Abigail says no I'm sorry I need to be by the Queen side and Sarah creates a dig such loyalty how delightful it is when one tries to cultivate a new trading ones character. And then and like don't scratch it her like she knows what's going on but it's like saying oh no don't don't take it out on her but then Sarah's tactic is to draw mud on her face into a moustache Mr Freeman and then and last and, Abigail tries to smile and dream but she can't so Sarah's tactic isn't to use the pet name thing but she knows how to make her laugh.

Yeah but even the use of the names Sarah wins that scene there then back in the carriage riding back and Sarah is smiling at Abigail.

Oh and ends asleep on her shoulder right yeah and then mouths you'll be back in the street.

Yeah.

I meant it's the same immediately after when they're walking after that Sarah is. Yes you know it's it's Sarah and Anne side by side with Abigail behind her and the camera is with Abigail so we see that she is following behind those two and then Sierra and Anne talking about their shared history and Abigail is trying to join in and she's completely excluded.

And Abigail like that the stakes are very clear you know Sarah has mouth you are out on the street Abigail has lost the game of the favourite Sarah has reengaged with that game she's put aside trying to win the war in France and and negotiate, political support within Parliament and she's just purely reengaged with the game of winning and favour and she is played, Not just within the rules of the game but she's used tactics that are unavailable to Abigail Abigail cannot compete on that level she does not have their shared history she does not make the Queen laugh.

The button on the scene is interesting because this is an example of a French saying right because we've got Abigail following behind Sarah and Anne basically the Queen says no more we're going to retire Sarah and and decide to retire to Anne's apartment. Alone without Abigail right and then around the corner basically they have a more frank conversation right where Sarah asks the Queen you are enjoying all of this aren't you and then says to be beloved of course to see you trying to win me why what is not to love my dear. Right today kind of acknowledging the existence of the game right and then and he is trying to make Sarah jealous and it's worked. Sarah is re-engaged as you say in the game but I love the little thing with you know you know Sarah you will stop with this ridiculous you know you've made your point perhaps I was not making a point and it's like, and doing exactly what we're talking about those white lotus characters to me you know like even her not ignore you know I'm not trying to make you jealous maybe I do love her is actually part of. And game. Yeah definitely. I think it's just interesting because that is table talk and it's them having a frank conversation of just when it's the two of them very similar to the conversation not similar but the idea of the way that these people talk to each other about what's going on is their dynamic when there's three of them is very different when it's the dynamic of any group of two.

Yes and Abigail faced with that right face with being thrown back out in the street plays the game differently. And the reason why she now wins is because Sarah could not even imagine. Abigail playing this way which is not within the rules of Sarah's world which is Abigail poisons Sarah and it has a whole lot of flow on effects the poisoning so it ends up that Sarah falls off her horse is dragged by her horse is found by some brothel owner, Who wants to in prison Sarah and use her as a prostitute anyway Sarah is taken figuratively and literally off the board and it allows Abigail to make her move to marry mashem to become a lady to become entrenched with the Queen and get a salary from the Queen. The reason why that works is because poisoning was outside of the rules of the game right and the only reason that Abigail resorts to poisoning has driven it to it is the stakes were so high for for Abigail. And that the only reason Sarah drinks anything that Abigail is given to her is just hubris is like built in the rules of the world there is no way, A servant even one who's livelihood I've just threatened even who is buying knows my deepest darkest secrets there is no way she would poison me.

Yeah I think it's one of these things we don't conceive it as being part of the game because she hasn't resorted to any of that stuff she's been underhand and played social games right and she let's the Queen discover her naked and all these kinds of things but no outright acts of violence.

Sarah has had a one point Abigail whipped.

That's true.

Abigail not by Sarah but by virtue of the position of being a servant has had her hands thrust into an industrial chemical that scolds her Abigail has assaulted herself to get what she wants.

Yes that's true.

Sarah has fired a gun at Abigail violence has never been used towards Sarah Sarah feels that her, status to the rules of this world means that violence can never be used against her only against Abigail.

Yeah that's a good observation that it is hubris.

Yeah I I think that's it like her downfall is is hubris.

Is a good set up that we see that Abigail understands herbs and that's how she's able to treat the Queen's wounds but we've shown that she has got those resources so you know you talked about like the idea that Sarah's got access to tactics that Abigail doesn't because they got this long history, But for me it's like your tactics are informed by what resources you have so it is kind of interesting to think about your characters I mean this is all very academic or theorycrafting or whatever you want to call it but you can sit there and go what resources does my character have access to and those resources may not just be, I know how to pick herbs, they may be, I have shared history, but the resources that your characters have within a scene inform the tactics that they choose to use.

Well also to to a I guess to tie it back to my experience of screenwriting is I know that at the low point Abigail's gonna poison Sarah so how can I in the first act establish. Abigail's access to poisons as being a viable character option all she could know herbs how could she use herbs all she can use herbs to treat the Queen all that will win her access to the Queen. Yeah I don't know that that's how that happened but that feels like my process where I'm like I need certain things to happen later in the narrative and what I'm being forced to do is to go back and fold them into the characters earlier but that, often being forced to do that often leads to better narrative outcomes. Or more complex layered more interesting scenes or moments earlier in a story.

I noticed none of us actually question how does Abigail know about herbs you know it's like okay it's obviously something that she's had to know about she's a survivor this is how she's learnt to survive right it is kind of like the consistency of her character trait.

So I mean those are all the scenes the individual scenes we wanted to discuss and it does boil down to Abigail wins the game of the movie she becomes the favourite and then she says to Sarah I won and Sarah says. We were playing two different games.

Yeah cause basically what happens after that is that Sarah is rescued so Abigail ends up having a moment where she misses Sarah at this point she's like Sarah is written off in a half she's angry with me she's trying to manipulate me and is like, no I want her back and they try to look for her meanwhile Sarah is smart enough to be here resources to recognise her understanding of court. You want to make more money you need to find a man that walks is dark which is such a great little payoff as well because the Prime Minister is got this duck.

Racing duck.

Horatio as in Horatio Nelson one presumes and is able to get herself rescued from that situation but the Queen is horrified to discover that Sarah's got a big fucking scar, Exeter Exeter so it's kind of the damage has been done Abigail has poisoned figuratively and literally the relationship at that point between Sarah and Anne and when Sarah tries to call her out on it which leads to the same ultimately it backfires.

But Abigail was only ever playing the game for herself which was admittedly a privileged position right Sarah was playing the game. I mean I think Sarah has more love genuine love for an then Abigail does but Sarah was never fighting for starvation. For you know industrial poisoning for a life of servitude that was never at stake for Sarah. Yeah and because that was never at stake for her that's why she underestimated Abigail and why they were essentially playing two different games.

Yeah I agree with that like there is no sense that Sarah until she falls off that horse Sarah has you say he's never been assaulted where Abigail has been physically and sexually assaulted.

Has applying this analysis to widely lauded dramatic films admittedly satires and black comedies but not blurry or an action film has this analysis yielded anything more than what we learned or identified in the previous episode for you.

Yeah, I mean, weirdly, it's, look, it could just be recency bias, but that idea of thinking about games, that the advantage of games for, from a writing point of view, is that they reveal competency, they reveal character choices, and they reveal, and character choices reveal character, you know, the decisions that characters make, reveal who they are, and then it forces character to interrelate. I think that is really useful as a tool. I think kind of the changing the idea of what the referee is to do the rulemaker is useful and how that connects to power and is definitely the rulemaker. In the favourite right she changes the rules on people but. At the same time there are these boundaries that may exist within the rules the unspoken rules right what you would have called think about career what is in the spirit of the game. It's it's not the poisoning isn't in the rules of the game poisoning is not in the spirit of the game it's something that we don't do but it's not explicitly forbidden right.

Well, I think it was in, obviously in Abigail's rules of the game as a valid tactic and just not in Sarah's rules.

Yeah. Is there something within Triangle of Sadness about that a parallel look I think maybe to do with Triangle of Sadness is Abigail, can't believe that these both films both have a game, you know that they are able to change the rules to change the circumstances because effectively what makes them like a rule is you either get punished for it or not, Right and that comes from like the change of the circumstances mean no one can really change Abigail's ruling triangle of sadness because they're actually dependent on her so she says this is the way the world's going to work. Right and it's just that idea at the end when she realises that they there may be an escape and she enjoys the power that it kind of. Get small complex and I leave it ambiguous in the favourite Abigail. Quote-unquote breaks rule she she's beyond the spirit of the game Sarah calls her out on doing it but there is no consequences to Abigail at all so. There is a sense of like well maybe it was kind of in the rules of the game or and sorry within the rules the game and certainly when Abigail is trying to destroy Sarah so completely. Like so completely and she's not just satisfied that Sarah's know is stripped of her room and Abigail gets live in the room you know she's no longer satisfied that she needs her to be completely destroyed, that we feel that that might be actually one of the boundaries and. The Queen says it's a boundary you're going too far no that's absurd she would not do that and then she ends up using it like she's kind of shifting it so that is that is an interesting thing to me to consider. Right I mean I think these are all considerations some of it you might want to go down the path of a, dramatising through a literal game or using it something like. The Game of Questions of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, I just find that the game of the scene is an interesting, for me, interesting way to expand my understanding of tactics, and how characters go around things. And then there is stuff to think about then with what the characters are aware of as the rules, what are the written rules, what are the unwritten rules, what are the spoken rules, the unspoken rules, right? And how the audience understands that I think that is is really useful kind of just frameworks for looking at scenes and conceiving of scenes and also what the pattern is but will I want to come back to that in a moment where are you.

For me it's not so much that learning different things, I think the entertainment factor is a bigger one than. Got from the previous examples in the previous episode you know I could look at these scenes that have really stood out to us and they stand up to this analysis of a game whether they're the ones with literal games or figurative games. But they are super entertaining because in coming into these scenes they have clear win conditions clear rules clear tactics, Arbiters and arenas like the fact that those things are in existence and a clearly detailed to the audience makes those scenes more entertaining and. You know last episode we just finished working on our script and since then I've been really focusing on another script of my own which was a biopic and in biopics you got to hit these. Real life events right like the narrative is talking to you and this will be the same in any story like you've you've your narrative will demand something of you and it's like how do I make this moment that has to happen in my story the most entertaining it can possibly be, and reveal things about not just the protagonist but all the other characters and I think this kind of analysis of those scenes helps that.

Yeah I mean it's interesting you used the word analysis would you use it on a conceptual level or would you use it on a rewriting level.

Look I think that can work for anyone at my conceptual level I just need the bare minimum. Get a scene on the page and to me this analysis is no different to you know what is the intention and the obstacle or what is the want and the need you know what I like about the game is that it involves everyone who's in the same.

Yeah and what I like about it is want and obstacle doesn't imply tactics that reflects character and I think that idea, of thinking in about what resources a character has access to. All day exhausted you know that the resources no longer prefer which is what happens with Abigail right you reverse the poisoning because ultimately, she cannot compete with the fact that Sarah loves and I think that there is a love and a familiarity there that goes beyond that, you know the sexual attraction.

For sure and what a game also does what I like about it as a as a screenwriting tool and also as a metaphor is that it pulls all these separate tools together that we've been thinking about and I think most other writers also think about like like you just said tactics but rules of the world it pulls all these things together within a scene thinking of it through this lens.

And where I want to go on now and it's kind of a question mark and make will probably end up exploring in a deeper episode we talked about it kind of there's a game throughout the favourite but I think there is something the patterning of kind of types of scenes that you can have, that they can be the game of what I would call the game of the show right so in Poker Face the TV show it's it is like the who done it of the week and all the why done it of the week and the fact that she's got the superpower that people can't lie that's a game, Right like that is actually a game for the audience that the audience choose in to watch the game of that unfold but you can also do on a feature level there was a film by one of our patrons Molly and Max in the future and Michael Luck, I hope I'm saying your name right mate. Fucking hilariously delightful low-budget sci-fi rom-com right and there is the sequence of scenes where it's these characters basically bumping into each other every couple of years like in the back of a taxi or in a, at a cafe so it's literally them just sitting there and talking to each other and that's kind of a lot of what the first act is and, What's interesting is the film kind of finds a new structural game every kind of a sequence so it goes from that there is another point where they're paying basically sci-fi racquetball and there's another sequence where they're doing they're doing door knocking for a politician right it's coming up with constantly inventing new ways for these characters to interact and it made me go that there is ways that you can think about this. Games in terms of structuring a whole piece of work. You know another one I really like is a kind of like you could call it a web series written by Nick Hornby. And that's actually interesting because High Fidelity is actually got a bit of this too. Called State of the Union, which is basically two characters Louise and Tom played by Rosamund Pike and Chris O'Dowd. And it's their going to the pub just before they go to marriage counselling and every episode is them at the pub very very structured that is like a game. For the audience and I go I like Nick Hornby because like High Fidelity is like break up of the week you know connected to a song right so there is some kind of formal stuff that I think it's worth exploring in its own episode.

For sure I think it to me hearing you talk about that and sadly I could not get to Michael's screening I'm so sorry I was super keen to get there but it's taking one of these micro tools and applying it to the macro in the same way that we've done with other.

Yeah we talked about it with narrative point of view kind of stuff it is absolutely a inventive and endearing film I'm going to put I'm going to put a link into the show notes because you should check it out.

Alright thanks as always to our patrons who bring you more draft zero more often and managed to keep me awake on this late Sunday evening. She was all prepared it was me you had to be dragged to the microphone. Both of you to assume I was prepared but in particular special thanks to Lily Alexandra Casimir Jennifer Thomas Garrett Randy Jesse Sandra these and. Rob former guest and appearance in this in this episode.

Guest starring. Also with.

Also with.

Additional guesting.

And thank you, Stu, for making me watch Triangle of Sadness and re-watch The Favourite. I'm really glad we got to this film. I hope everyone could tell our love of this, and this was a good lens through which to, Appreciate this story further.

I think it holds a lot of lessons for us because I feel like one of us is Sarah and the other one of us is Abigail and we're competing for the love of the Drive Zero audience, which of us is the favourite?

We all know it's me.

Could I poison you?

Definitely you would.

I hope you all feel like arguing with either stew or myself about anything on this episode or anything in general and you can find many ways of getting in touch with us at our website at draft hyphen 0.com. At the website you also find the show notes for this and all our other episodes as well as links to support us and spread the word for free via rating and review on Apple podcast. Very important for spreading the word or if you think that what we do here is worth a dollar or preferably more than a dollar then you can also find links to our Patreon page to support us getting these episodes to you quicker thanks. And thanks for listening.